Curse

Alex the Great · May 03, 2008, 10:35 PM // 22:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Game N Die

No, actually I have over 2 mil in gold and assets atm. My motivation for this post is purely what I stated. No hidden agenda. And yes I am a new player, which is why I don't like being penalized.

i seriously doubt that if you were an new palyer you'd have over 2 million.
and the mini system is fine, quit QQing

Shadowfox1125 · May 03, 2008, 10:40 PM // 22:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Game N Die

No, actually I have over 2 mil in gold and assets atm. My motivation for this post is purely what I stated. No hidden agenda. And yes I am a new player, which is why I don't like being penalized.

If you have 2 million gold, then why are you even bringing this up? Seriously. My account is 3 years old and I have 150k in storage. (I'm a casual player - taken about 10 months off in total)
Cut me some slack. Or better yet, donate some cash to me.

Esprit · May 03, 2008, 10:45 PM // 22:45

OP, you are saying that people who have supported Anet and Guild Wars from the beginning, before it became popular, before it had all the expansions and additions in it, should not be shown any favoritism when the developers give out appreciation gifts for playing the game when it first came out?

Yes, to new players, it sucks, but to those of us who have been playing for three years, it's a show of appreciation that is, in my opinion, deserved.

It's not the veteran's fault that minipets are such a trade commodity, go QQ to the devs.

Witchblade · May 03, 2008, 10:59 PM // 22:59

i had a good laugh at the title first

you want minis? buy them

feels like casuals asking 'What about fows for us too pls ?' oh and btw, minis got no in game effect

Mister_Smiley · May 03, 2008, 11:02 PM // 23:02

If something isn't broke, don't fix it, its that simple

lyra_song · May 03, 2008, 11:05 PM // 23:05

So youre basically complaining that veteran players are getting instant cash, while you get the item later and its worth lots less?

Unfair right?

You want my pre-order items too?

Whine some more.

=========

The game's birthday present system rewards OLDER players.

Of course NEWER players will be disadvantaged because they are NEWER players.

You want more minis? thats fine.
Minis from chests are cool.
Mini drops are fine.

Changing a BIRTHDAY system to any other present will ALWAYS be unfair to new players, even if that present wasnt sellable, it would still be UNFAIR.

DEAL WITH IT.

ElinoraNeSangre · May 03, 2008, 11:06 PM // 23:06

I admit, while I do kind of think "meh, by the time I even have a chance of getting these, they won't be worth anything", at least I've got the guts to be honest and admit the truth - I'm jealous!

And as far as I'm concerned, that's all my problem, not the fault of the people who have supported this game nor the fault of ANet who have given these special present to the supporters.

People who have stuck with this game from the start, who are still playing, who are collecting minis, or using the profits to buy shiny things, and are having a great time? Power to them!

I think that's great. Some of these players are the same players that help mentor newbies, or give away free stuff, or help sponsor cool guild events, or whatever. And sure, some of them are that elitist jerk from some mission last week. And such is life. No use stressing it.

On the other hand, you have the people getting the minis, selling them for loads of money, making all kinds of money over it, then coming over here to complain that GW sucks and they don't play anymore ect ect and how awesome WoW is or whatever. :P Because this game is free to play after you purchase it, I can't say that loyalty really means much (sorry). If someone only logs on to get their minis and sell them, well, I think that's lame. That's not supporting the game.

Maybe we should consider the fact that the bigger problem is that it's hard to make money in this game without significant time investment. People probably wouldn't be so begrudging if they had a chance. But that has nothing to do with minis or people who have been playing a while!

I say meh. I'm a lot more concerned with my family, my house, my job, my college, and my life, than I am with minis and my net worth in a video game.

wilderness · May 03, 2008, 11:12 PM // 23:12

I'd hoped Anet would try something new for 3rd year players like an NPC crafter that opens only on that birthday (armour, headgear, weapons.. anything), but alas yet more pets.

There are plenty of ways to make money without having to worry about the initial potential platinum reward that older players receive on a birthday release. The rest has been said, the mini pet system is fine.

Phineas · May 03, 2008, 11:15 PM // 23:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esprit

OP, you are saying that people who have supported Anet and Guild Wars from the beginning, before it became popular, before it had all the expansions and additions in it, should not be shown any favoritism when the developers give out appreciation gifts for playing the game when it first came out?

Yes, to new players, it sucks, but to those of us who have been playing for three years, it's a show of appreciation that is, in my opinion, deserved.

It's not the veteran's fault that minipets are such a trade commodity, go QQ to the devs.

Agree with this except that there is no favouritism being shown. If my char is 2 years older than yours then I have 2 extra minis compared to you. You will get yours in due course and will have the same chance of getting a rare mini as I did at the same point in time. Favouritism would be giving all the original 1,000 characters who hit 1 year a green mini-pet then then the next 10,000 a gold mini, etc.

The present system works perfectly in my opinion, but to please the OP I can only think that merging all pets into 1 pot so that no matter what age your char is you get a random mini from all available minis but that would lead to further duplication. So leave it be.

Dante the Warlord · May 03, 2008, 11:29 PM // 23:29

I think its pretty obvious Game N Die just wants attention, so mods please close this thread

Game N Die · May 03, 2008, 11:30 PM // 23:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phineas

The present system works perfectly in my opinion, but to please the OP I can only think that merging all pets into 1 pot so that no matter what age your char is you get a random mini from all available minis but that would lead to further duplication. So leave it be.

Thank you for your decency. This idea I also think is worth considering.

As for most others, all I'm hearing is "Na-nanny-boo-boo, I joined before you did :P" But, I'm gathering that most like the current system, and think that it is a good system to reward loyal players with a chance to add a few more ectos to your bank. Fine, again, that's all you have to say. And yet again, all I am trying to do here is start a conversation among the community about what they think about the current "Loyalty Reward" system. I voiced my opinion....because of which, I have been told numerous times "you should have kept it to yourself", and although this may degenerate even further into a flame-fest, I still think there is some room here for intelligent discourse on the subject.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dante the Warlord

I think its pretty obvious Game N Die just wants attention, so mods please close this thread

Actually, no, I seemed to have assumed wrongly that this topic could be broached with some level of civility. I am not the only one that feels this way, as has been shown on a few occassions. Somehow, though, it seems that I hit a sore spot for a lot of people.

HuntMaster Avatar · May 03, 2008, 11:40 PM // 23:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Game N Die

No, actually I have over 2 mil in gold and assets atm. My motivation for this post is purely what I stated. No hidden agenda. And yes I am a new player, which is why I don't like being penalized.

Um, You are not being penalized. You just have not played as long as they have, Why should you get the same awards without investing the same amount of time? Thats not fair at all. Either wait 6 months for price drops and buy them, or wait til your 3rd year and get them free and stop hating on others who make money on mini's. Its not older gamers faults you started playing so late.

Get 1st year and 2nd year mini's, concentrate on collecting other things.

PS: /Notsigned.

lyra_song · May 03, 2008, 11:42 PM // 23:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Game N Die

Actually, no, I seemed to have assumed wrongly that this topic could be broached with some level of civility. I am not the only one that feels this way, as has been shown on a few occassions. Somehow, though, it seems that I hit a sore spot for a lot of people.

Nah, people just see it for its stupidity.

Stupidity pisses people off.

Turtle222 · May 03, 2008, 11:43 PM // 23:43

To the OP:

Rather thoughtless of you to bring up a discussion about this in a forum where most of the members are at least 2+ year veterans. You expected better?

I'm personally about to receive my 3rd's in a month or so. Yes, i shall most definitely sell them. From your perspective, Mini's are like antiques waiting to be found by collectors. I wish to inform you that is not their purpose. Once you understand that, then perhaps you will appreciate the negative criticism (as hard as that may be).

I do not agree with you. I think the current system works, particularly because it is dead easy to gain wealth nowadays.

I am beginning to see trolling going on, particularly by furnace stokers and certain elite guru members. Ergo, please close this down before this escalates.

/requestlock

Martin Alvito · May 03, 2008, 11:50 PM // 23:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Game N Die

I'm not sure what the best way to do it would be, but basically if you weren't one of the first people to play this game you will never get any amount of gp for your minis.

Your entire argument revolves around the unstated assumption that game rewards should be allocated equitably - that doing so is proper game design. But this simply isn't the case.

If everyone can get them, few want them. Scarcity matters. It creates intrinsic value. Game designers need at least some of their in-game items to have high values in order to keep people playing. The existence of items to chase keeps people running on that grind treadmill in order to accomplish a goal.

Ideally, there would constantly be new content, and GW would never devolve into grind. But this simply isn't in the designers' best financial interests; creating scarce, desirable items is a more cost-effective solution. The concept of titles has a similar underlying motivation.

The initial rarity of the miniatures makes their release an event; people post threads about what will be in the series weeks in advance by reading the .dat file, discuss it on Vent, in third-party-chat programs and in game, and generally care about the fact that they will become available. A trader or what have you would greatly decrease interest. Anyone with a small amount of funds would be perfectly capable of crafting the item, unless you require that the best ones require tons of ecto or some such. Doing so, however, merely creates a price floor on the item - not what ANet wants. Eventually, items like the bone dragon and Gwen become reasonably priced.

Once you accept the fact that inequity is built into the system for good reason (to create scarcity), your argument collapses. Rewarding players that have been around longer than anyone else is as efficient a solution as any other, and it has desirable properties (rewarding customer loyalty). Personally, I'd rather see all in-game items made available only by sufficient demonstration of skill. However, that will never happen. Most people are just bad at computer games; the game design I propose would not sell to a mass audience.

I'm in much the same boat as you are; I get one pet in June, one in August and one in November. By then, they've depreciated most of their value. So I have little financial stake in defending the existing system.

Your argument is flawed for the above reasons. You should have kept silent because your argument is bad, not because others disagree with you. You're going to get flamed for publishing an unpopular opinion. Welcome to the Internet.

The fact that your argument is so deeply flawed just means that you need an even better flame-retardant suit to deal with the inevitable hate.

Game N Die · May 03, 2008, 11:51 PM // 23:51

Ya, may as well close this at this point. People don't seem to want to discuss issues as seen from a new players perspective.

Edit: Actually, as usual, mods can close if they decide. I'm going to bow out and observe from this point, as my simple presence seems to be negating from the potential forward movement of this discussion. Thanks all who have attempted to contribute in a positive way, and as for the rest, ya I know about the disrespect that anonymity allows, and it's no biggie.

snaek · May 03, 2008, 11:56 PM // 23:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Game N Die

Actually, no, I seemed to have assumed wrongly that this topic could be broached with some level of civility. I am not the only one that feels this way, as has been shown on a few occassions. Somehow, though, it seems that I hit a sore spot for a lot of people.

well thats teh gw community for u...

but tbh, there really is nuthin here worth discussing
its not as important of an issue as game bugs or balance isues

anet does birthday presents out of their own generosity
out if their own time and consideration
they dun -have- to do this

so it really comes down to...
u didnt buy gw for birthday presents...
its jus an added bonus

in otherwords...dun 'xxxxx' for something that is free
(xxxxx being wutever it is that u think that ur doing...im not gonna mention possibilities of wut i think it is cuz i dun wanna 'offend' u)

I MP I · May 04, 2008, 12:07 AM // 00:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Game N Die

I'm not sure what the best way to do it would be, but basically if you weren't one of the first people to play this game you will never get any amount of gp for your minis. I don't know what the solution is, but it is rediculous for the vet players, who probably already have plenty of stuff, to get 100k +e appearing in their inventory for all chars, including storage mules. I'd like to see minis start dropping from chests. I do think that the vet players should get something for their dedication, but I just think this whole birthday present could be revamped so as not to basically penalize people who discovered this game later.

Ok

Quote:

Originally Posted by Game N Die

No, actually I have over 2 mil in gold and assets atm. My motivation for this post is purely what I stated. No hidden agenda. And yes I am a new player, which is why I don't like being penalized.

Wait what? Why do you care then? The system is fine as it is. Veterans were here first as such they should be rewarded based on loyalty. So you don't get a mini worth 100k+ectos. Not like the world will end.

As for the minis dropping from chests, great idea and all but Anet is working on GW2. Most likely wont happen.

Martin Alvito · May 04, 2008, 12:09 AM // 00:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Game N Die

Ya, may as well close this at this point. People don't seem to want to discuss issues as seen from a new players perspective.

General good principles of game design trump the new player perspective.

ANet's made a lot of design mistakes over the years; the birthday present system isn't one of them. There are lots of things about it that make people unhappy, but it has desirable normative properties and specifying a Pareto-superior one is likely impossible.

That's a good system right there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by I MP I

As for the minis dropping from chests, great idea and all but Anet is working on GW2. Most likely wont happen.

Problem is that this substitutes randomness for rewarding loyalty. Then we'll just have posts containing the argument, 'O HAI PRESENT SYSTEM BAD I SOZ UNLUCK'. Heck, we had a QQ thread about how some players consistently open bad presents on the front page of the forums last week. All this accomplishes is to change the set of complainers from one group to another.

garethporlest18 · May 04, 2008, 12:18 AM // 00:18

I don't really see how you can say people who've been here for 3 years are loyal. I mean some of them sure, but I dont think that can be used as an argument really. Seeing as you don't have to be loyal at all, Guild Wars isn't a p2p game and you could have made a character in May of 05 and never played the game again till now and just collected. Don't see how that's very loyal.